34 replies to this topic

[mo91745]

My 2003 Matrix XR is throwing the P0420 code and mechanics tell me my ECM and catalytic converter needs to be replaced for about $2000. This is covered under Toyota's 80,000mi/8yr emissions warranty, but I'm beyond that. I tried one local Toyota dealer who refuses to help. I'm wondering if anyone in the same situation has had any luck with their dealer and/or regional Toyota office.

Thanks.

[dnm]

I've never heard of the ecu needing replacement. Sounds like they're on drugs.

Lesson #1: stop going to the dealer. You're being buttraped.

[mo91745]

dnm, on 27 April 2012 - 02:11 PM, said:

I've never heard of the ecu needing replacement. Sounds like they're on drugs.

The ECU needs to be reprogrammed and/or replaced, per this Toyota TSB. Plus, many people in this forum have said ECU reflashing has solved their P0420 problems.

[Cruxless]

Sorry to say, but you can forgett about having the dealer and or Toyota take responsibility for the fix. As the saying goes, consider yourself "Sh!t out of luck".

[dnm]

mo91745, on 27 April 2012 - 02:14 PM, said:

dnm, on 27 April 2012 - 02:11 PM, said:

I've never heard of the ecu needing replacement. Sounds like they're on drugs.

The ECU needs to be reprogrammed and/or replaced, per this Toyota TSB. Plus, many people in this forum have said ECU reflashing has solved their P0420 problems.

If your car has over 80k mi on it, your ecu is fine.

P0420 means your cat is dead. It's that simple. You can ignore it if your state doesn't have emissions testing of any kind, or you can replace your cat, and move on. Simple as that.

I'm not sure what makes you think a car over 80k mi old should get any kind of warranty coverage. That's kind of absurd.

Yes, I get it, it sucks, but lets be realistic.

[Cruxless]

dnm is correct. Although I would say, its hard to ignore the smell of a faulty CAT

[Salsa Guy]

Sure you can replace the o2 which is simple and cheap but 85% of the time won't fix your issue. You can buy an used 03-04 ECU < $80 just needs to be for like transmission (A/T or M/T) from a Corolla, Matrix, VIbe and don't think it'll need to be reflashed. But again it's likey not the ECU. More than likely it's your CAT.

[mo91745]

dnm: thanks for your reply.

dnm, on 27 April 2012 - 09:15 PM, said:

If your car has over 80k mi on it, your ecu is fine.

What's the logic here? Not trying to be argumentative. I want to understand.

dnm, on 27 April 2012 - 09:15 PM, said:

I'm not sure what makes you think a car over 80k mi old should get any kind of warranty coverage.

My two reasons are:

1) I've seen people say in this forum and in Toyota Nation's forum that the Matrix ECM was badly programmed, so that it lets out a little bit of unburned gas into the exhaust, wearing out the cat faster than normal. (I'll post links to those posts, if you'd like).

2) Toyota's TSB says to replace the ECM with the cat, if the customer complains of a sulfer smell. It seems to me that if the ECM program has an error and needs to be replaced in some cars, that should apply to all cars.

If you/someone can explain to me why the ECM really isn't the problem, that would be great. I want to understand the issue and get the story straight, so that if the root cause is a badly programmed ECM, I can approach Toyota and ask for a remedy.

Thanks.

Edited by mo91745, 27 April 2012 - 11:53 PM.

[Salsa Guy]

a) Dnm knows quite a bit about these cars.
b )There should be a little unburned gas, otherwise the engine would fry.
c) Cats and o2 sensors are wear items and you car is 9 y/o with over 100K miles
d) I'll bet you $100 it's your CAT or O2.

You sound like you know it all so go fight your windmills Don Q.

Edited by Salsa Guy, 28 April 2012 - 03:39 PM.

[mo91745]

Salsa Guy, on 28 April 2012 - 12:05 AM, said:

You sound like you know it all so go fight you windmills Don.

I'm sorry to come across as being a know-it-all. I'm just trying to ask pointed questions so that I can learn as much as I can from you guys. If I'm wrong I can accept it -- I just want to know why I'm wrong.

Do you know why Toyota issued TSB EG026-04 to replace the ECM for those who get the P0420? It seems to me that if the problem is in the ECM program, it should apply to all Matrix's, since we're talking about computer code that is the same from one Matrix to the next.

[Cruxless]

mo91745, on 28 April 2012 - 12:15 AM, said:

Do you know why Toyota issued TSB EG026-04 to replace the ECM for those who get the P0420? It seems to me that if the problem is in the ECM program, it should apply to all Matrix's, since we're talking about computer code that is the same from one Matrix to the next.

1. Toyota issued a TSB to acknowledge that there "might" be a problem with the ECM within that model & year vehicle. If there definitly was a problem then Toyota would have issued a RECALL and not a TSB.

2. If your specific problem truly was the cause of a faulty ECM, then you would have received the P0420 code long before now.

3. This TSB does not apply to all Matrices. Instead, it applies to a "specific batch" of ECM's which may or may not have been installed in a 2003 to 2004 1zz-fe equipped Matrix. Just because your Matrix falls in these years does not necessarily mean your ECM shares the batch number related to this TSB.

[dnm]

Cruxless covered it pretty well. If your ECU were a concern, it would have fouled your cat WAY before 100k mi. Your ECU is fine, you need a new cat.

/thread.

[Cruxless]

^ Thank you sir. ibtl

[XR2003]

To the OP,

Even IF the TSB ECU reflash was done, your catalytic converter will still need to be replaced. Your freshly reflashed ECU will still throw a P0420 CEL.

And there is NO dealership that will honor the 8 year/80,000 emission warranty on a vehicle from 2003.

Other than finding a cat. converter from a junkyard, ebay, craigslist or aftermarket online for a Matrix or 2003-2008 Corolla, depending on your state's emission laws, you will have to buy a new one from the dealer.

[itschell]

I bought my Matrix in '06. Within a month I had the same code (P0420). There was 67K miles on it and I got it to the dealer just in the knick of time to get the cat replaced. The warranty is pretty straight forward, 5 years or 70k miles for emissions. There's no obligation for a dealer to replace anything emissions related at 8 years/80k miles.

I've drove it for 6 years now, and the same code has been coming off and on for about 6 months now. There's 220K miles on it, and I'm sure it's the cat again. We do have emissions here, so I'll have to deal with it. I'll clear the code and see if it stays cleared long enough to get through emissions and replace the cat when I have the cash to do it. This time I'll use an aftermarket part that's less than half the cost of OEM. The OEM cat replaced under warranty only lasted 6 years/150k miles. I'm not sure what the average life of a cat is, but I'm not encouraged to spend the money on an OEM after having another one fail this soon.

For the money, I'd suggest just replacing the cat and be done with it. All the posts I read here, and the research I've done, I've not read of a Matrix owner yet that replaced either sensor and had that keep the code off for more than a day or so.

[mo91745]

itschell, on 13 June 2012 - 07:24 AM, said:

I bought my Matrix in '06. Within a month I had the same code (P0420). There was 67K miles on it and I got it to the dealer just in the knick of time to get the cat replaced.

Thanks. Do you recall whether the dealer replaced or reprogrammed the ECU (PCM) when they replaced the cat?

[HESS]

Holy s***. The ECU has NOTHING to do with a p0420 CEL code. Get over it. Its your cat. You don't need a new ecu, you need a new cat converter.

the End.

Period.

Bye.

[mo91745]

HESS, on 17 June 2012 - 02:20 PM, said:

The ECU has NOTHING to do with a p0420 CEL code.

Then why does Toyota's TSB have you replace or reprogram the ECU when your cat fails? You might say that applies only to Matrixes whose cats fail early, and not to the rest. If so, then why? Since an ECU isn't something that wears out over time, if it's faulty in some cars, isn't it faulty in all?

I'll stop inquiring when I find answers.

[Salsa Guy]

Everyone has given you answers but not the one you want. A car with a 9 y/o died and Toyota can careless and you need to pay to get it fixed or not. We also don't care.

There's you answer!

[dnm]

/thread.