Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

5 Speed To 6 Speed Conversion?


  • Please log in to reply
217 replies to this topic

#1 ORTOX06

ORTOX06

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 122 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cleveland, Ohio
  • 2004
  • Toyota
  • Matrix

Posted 12 October 2009 - 04:18 PM

I have a 2004 Matrix, with 130,000 miles. The transmission failed. Apparently a bearing or bearings have gone out. It got loud, then louder, and in about 2 months time it failed completely. I took it to a transmission shop and they said it failed internally and will need to be rebuilt.

I contacted Toyota's corporate offices in an attempt to have them pay for the repair - seeing as how the transmission should NOT have failed.

But all that aside - I will most likely replace the transmission.

Can I put the XRS 6 speed transmission in my base 5 speed Matrix? If so, is it a direct bolt on conversion?

Edited by ORTOX06, 12 October 2009 - 04:43 PM.

2004 Base with XRS 6-speed transmission, SECO clutch kit, Perfection flywheel, Green air filter

#2 Roxtar

Roxtar

    ಠ_ರೃ

  • Site Admin
  • 13,433 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Northern VA
  • Interests:porsches, wrenching, racing
  • 2005
  • Toyota
  • Matrix XRS

Posted 12 October 2009 - 04:45 PM

You're well outside of the power train warranty. how often did you replace the gear oil? did you take it in as soon as you noticed it getting louder?

not toyota's fault IMO...

anyway, the XRS 6-speed will bolt up, but the 5-speed is better suited to the 1zz-fe engine... and it's more plentiful (read: easier/cheaper to buy a new one)
2005 Phantom XRS. Current Mods Updated August 10, 2009.
Posted Image
my race track videos: video 1, video 2
Project: Track Rat. Porsche 944
my crappy blog about music... Hey, I actually posted something there!

#3 ORTOX06

ORTOX06

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 122 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cleveland, Ohio
  • 2004
  • Toyota
  • Matrix

Posted 12 October 2009 - 04:59 PM

Now by "bolt up" do you mean there's nothing else involved besides doing a direct replacement? And to be honest, the reason I created this thread was because the only manual matrix transmissions on ebay are 6 speeds. Unless you know of somewhere where I could purchase a new transmission for a reasonable price.

Edited by ORTOX06, 12 October 2009 - 05:00 PM.

2004 Base with XRS 6-speed transmission, SECO clutch kit, Perfection flywheel, Green air filter

#4 Roxtar

Roxtar

    ಠ_ರೃ

  • Site Admin
  • 13,433 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Northern VA
  • Interests:porsches, wrenching, racing
  • 2005
  • Toyota
  • Matrix XRS

Posted 12 October 2009 - 05:16 PM

The trans will bolt right up and i'm 90% certain the axles are the same. just remember, the clutch for both transmissions are the same, but the flywheel depends on the engine, so get the flywheel for the engine you have.

new ones are going to be expensive no matter what you go with... but decent used ones should be plentiful in salvage yards. i blew up the diff on my 6-speed a year ago and found a trans with 15k mile warranty through http://www.car-part.com
2005 Phantom XRS. Current Mods Updated August 10, 2009.
Posted Image
my race track videos: video 1, video 2
Project: Track Rat. Porsche 944
my crappy blog about music... Hey, I actually posted something there!

#5 ORTOX06

ORTOX06

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 122 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cleveland, Ohio
  • 2004
  • Toyota
  • Matrix

Posted 12 October 2009 - 05:40 PM

Has anyone here on the forums done the conversion?
2004 Base with XRS 6-speed transmission, SECO clutch kit, Perfection flywheel, Green air filter

#6 Evilthorne

Evilthorne

    Are you "Reddy"

  • Silver Member
  • 10,730 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Kitchener
  • Interests:Cars
  • 2005
  • Toyota
  • Matrix Xrs

Posted 12 October 2009 - 05:42 PM

I disagree with yah Stu on the better suited comment. MR-S and euro celica gt came with the six speed tranny. When I crunched the numbers the sixspeed put more whp out in every gear through the ratios.

That said I think the transmission swaps right in, with out changing the flywheel or clutch.
Posted Image
click my sig for my registry

#7 Roxtar

Roxtar

    ಠ_ರೃ

  • Site Admin
  • 13,433 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Northern VA
  • Interests:porsches, wrenching, racing
  • 2005
  • Toyota
  • Matrix XRS

Posted 12 October 2009 - 05:52 PM

Depends on your goals Rick... I agree that if you're going for power and acceleration, the 6-speed is the way to go. if you're going for civility and fuel economy, the 5-speed has you at lower rpm at cruising speeds (iirc).
2005 Phantom XRS. Current Mods Updated August 10, 2009.
Posted Image
my race track videos: video 1, video 2
Project: Track Rat. Porsche 944
my crappy blog about music... Hey, I actually posted something there!

#8 ORTOX06

ORTOX06

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 122 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cleveland, Ohio
  • 2004
  • Toyota
  • Matrix

Posted 12 October 2009 - 06:08 PM

At this point in time, I'd like to spend the least amount of money possible. And the six speed transmission is way easier to find than the five for whatever reason. And I think at the same time the six speed would be a fun "mod" I suppose. Is there anyone that can confirm whether or not I can use my stock flywheel if I went through with this?

I guess here's another question that would answer everything. Do the flywheel and the clutch have to match up to the transmission or do they have to match up to the engine? Obviously when I go to install the new transmission I'm going to install a new clutch and at this point might as well do a new flywheel. So would I get a clutch and flywheel for the 1zz or 2zz if I did the six speed transmission?

Edited by ORTOX06, 12 October 2009 - 06:23 PM.

2004 Base with XRS 6-speed transmission, SECO clutch kit, Perfection flywheel, Green air filter

#9 Roxtar

Roxtar

    ಠ_ರೃ

  • Site Admin
  • 13,433 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Northern VA
  • Interests:porsches, wrenching, racing
  • 2005
  • Toyota
  • Matrix XRS

Posted 12 October 2009 - 07:39 PM

The trans will bolt right up and i'm 90% certain the axles are the same. just remember, the clutch for both transmissions are the same, but the flywheel depends on the engine, so get the flywheel for the engine you have.

new ones are going to be expensive no matter what you go with... but decent used ones should be plentiful in salvage yards. i blew up the diff on my 6-speed a year ago and found a trans with 15k mile warranty through http://www.car-part.com



At this point in time, I'd like to spend the least amount of money possible. And the six speed transmission is way easier to find than the five for whatever reason. And I think at the same time the six speed would be a fun "mod" I suppose. Is there anyone that can confirm whether or not I can use my stock flywheel if I went through with this?

I guess here's another question that would answer everything. Do the flywheel and the clutch have to match up to the transmission or do they have to match up to the engine? Obviously when I go to install the new transmission I'm going to install a new clutch and at this point might as well do a new flywheel. So would I get a clutch and flywheel for the 1zz or 2zz if I did the six speed transmission?


2005 Phantom XRS. Current Mods Updated August 10, 2009.
Posted Image
my race track videos: video 1, video 2
Project: Track Rat. Porsche 944
my crappy blog about music... Hey, I actually posted something there!

#10 ORTOX06

ORTOX06

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 122 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cleveland, Ohio
  • 2004
  • Toyota
  • Matrix

Posted 12 October 2009 - 07:43 PM

Okay dude. I'm relying on this information cause I'm planning on making these purchases within a day or so. I realize you've been around here a lot longer than I have so I'm completely counting on your replies being correct.
2004 Base with XRS 6-speed transmission, SECO clutch kit, Perfection flywheel, Green air filter

#11 ORTOX06

ORTOX06

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 122 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cleveland, Ohio
  • 2004
  • Toyota
  • Matrix

Posted 12 October 2009 - 10:23 PM

I ordered a SECO clutch on ebay. Found a 6 speed transmission from an 05 Matrix with 61000 miles for 625. Cheapest in my area. I'll probably pick it up tomorrow.
2004 Base with XRS 6-speed transmission, SECO clutch kit, Perfection flywheel, Green air filter

#12 Crazzyboy

Crazzyboy

    Guru

  • Members
  • 1,521 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Las Vegas, NV
  • 2006
  • Toyota
  • Matrix XRS

Posted 12 October 2009 - 11:57 PM

Depends on your goals Rick... I agree that if you're going for power and acceleration, the 6-speed is the way to go. if you're going for civility and fuel economy, the 5-speed has you at lower rpm at cruising speeds (iirc).


I agree here. Although the gear ratios for 5th and 6th for the respective 5 speed and 6 speed are the same. Only the differential is different. Although being unfamiliar with front drive layout, I wouldnt know how easy it would be to swap the old 5spd diff in there, if its in the tranny to begin with. If that were done, highway cruising would not be affected.

2006 XRS Phantom Gray:
Fidanza Flywheel, Fidanza V1 clutch; K&N short ram, AEM Dryflow Filter; Magnaflow muffler; Ported Header; TB bypass; ES Motor Mounts; MWR Water Pulley; TRD Oil Cap; TRD Radiator Cap; TRD Sway Bars(F&R); TRD Strut Brace; UR Rear Lower Bar; Tein H Techs; TWM short shifter, bushings, A6 shiftknob; Moroso Oil Pan; Achilles ATR Sport 225/40/18; 8mm rear spacers; StopTech Slotted Rotors F/R; 18% Tint AllRound; SC300 Horn; Debadged "TOYOTA"; Sharkfin Antenna; "Matrix" Doorsills; Silvania SSUltra 9005, 9006; VLEDS Really Effin Bright Reverse LEDs.
2013 Chevy Sonic LT Turbo: Factory


#13 kpace

kpace

    Zenlike

  • Members
  • 7,196 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canada

Posted 13 October 2009 - 09:45 AM

from what i've read before all this info is correct

the only time it gets confusing is when someone is going from AT to 6spd.... thats when pedal assemblies and linkage and all that get involved and its a bit trickier

i think 5 for 6 is just an in and out deal...
Posted Image

#14 ORTOX06

ORTOX06

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 122 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cleveland, Ohio
  • 2004
  • Toyota
  • Matrix

Posted 13 October 2009 - 11:22 AM

I appreciate all the replies guys. So the transmission shop my car was at that wanted to put in a rebuild for $1500 was holding my car hostage. So I had to pay $50 bucks to get my car off their lot. The guy was real scum. So I just have a couple more questions. I've been reading up a lot over at the spyder chat forums, but here are my concerns.

Will I throw any CELs or have any computer or spedometer issues? It doesn't seem as though that would be the case. Also, it appears as the the base matrix has the gates for the six speed. is this correct?
2004 Base with XRS 6-speed transmission, SECO clutch kit, Perfection flywheel, Green air filter

#15 Roxtar

Roxtar

    ಠ_ರೃ

  • Site Admin
  • 13,433 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Northern VA
  • Interests:porsches, wrenching, racing
  • 2005
  • Toyota
  • Matrix XRS

Posted 13 October 2009 - 11:42 AM

the shifters are identical... it won't be a problem. the matrix computer doesn't care about the manual transmission. i'll look at the one in my garage when i get home, but i think there is only 1 electronic connection on the gear box and that's for the reverse light switch.
2005 Phantom XRS. Current Mods Updated August 10, 2009.
Posted Image
my race track videos: video 1, video 2
Project: Track Rat. Porsche 944
my crappy blog about music... Hey, I actually posted something there!

#16 ORTOX06

ORTOX06

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 122 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cleveland, Ohio
  • 2004
  • Toyota
  • Matrix

Posted 13 October 2009 - 11:43 AM

HEY! I got all of my questions answered. I called up Moneywrench racing. The gentleman on the phone had all of the answers. It bolts right up. No gate issues. No computer issues. It's gold. I let you guys know how the conversion goes once all is said and done. I read the instructions in the shop manual on how the work should be done. Unfortunately I don't have the time or tools to go at this myself so I'm going to have my mechanic do the job.

I hope more base matrix owners can join in this conversion once there 5-speed transmissions inevitably die.

And sorry Roxtar, your post came in before I finished writing this post.

Edited by ORTOX06, 13 October 2009 - 11:44 AM.

2004 Base with XRS 6-speed transmission, SECO clutch kit, Perfection flywheel, Green air filter

#17 dnm

dnm

    captain pants

  • Members
  • 10,267 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cambridge, ON
  • Interests:Toejam, but not Earl; sequels to bad movies; hair in the drain; dog farts; and broken promises.
  • 2003 Matrix XRS/2004 Matrix XRS/2007 Supercharged FJ Cruiser/2004 Audi S4/1994 Toyota Supra TT/1983 Yamaha XS400/and the real gem: 1997 Nissan Pathfinder, bιtches.

Posted 13 October 2009 - 12:49 PM

the shifters are identical... it won't be a problem. the matrix computer doesn't care about the manual transmission. i'll look at the one in my garage when i get home, but i think there is only 1 electronic connection on the gear box and that's for the reverse light switch.


This is correct.

#18 TRDfrankie

TRDfrankie

    ↓↓↓ My Future Wife ↓↓↓

  • Members
  • 8,189 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Toronto, (Mississauga) Canada
  • Interests:Formula One!! Travel, Photography... Hot women!!
  • 2005
  • Toyota
  • Matrix TRD

Posted 13 October 2009 - 01:51 PM

This is a mod that i would like to do eventually... Evil and I were talking about this recently.


Please keep all of us informed ORTOX06
Please Click on the Link and Donate! ===> http://www.conquerca...onal&fr_id=1431 <== Thank you!

Posted Image

#19 ORTOX06

ORTOX06

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 122 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cleveland, Ohio
  • 2004
  • Toyota
  • Matrix

Posted 13 October 2009 - 02:07 PM

Will do. The LKQ location that I'm going to pick the transmission up from still hasn't called me yet today saying that they have the part yet so I'll likely be picking it up tomorrow.

I also have to wait till my clutch comes in that I ordered. So I'm hoping everything will be said and done by next monday.
2004 Base with XRS 6-speed transmission, SECO clutch kit, Perfection flywheel, Green air filter

#20 TRDXRS

TRDXRS

    Guru

  • Members
  • 3,792 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:scarborough
  • 2003
  • Matrix
  • XRS'in

Posted 13 October 2009 - 04:30 PM

throw some pics if you can im curious about ur mod very interesting !!!
Posted Image